A Controversial Post

Hello, I seem to have accidentally picked myself up a 1 day forum ban for advertising when mentioning other games that I play, but I didn't want to leave you without a response.

Hi Bill,

I don't think BigPoint stooping to the level of the botters is the best idea no, I just mean that it would be a technically feasible idea. Perhaps I didn't portray that as well as I could have. You say some people won't like your post or might find it funny, but I disagree. Yes we have different views on this but you've given a good response and elaborated on why you feel these methods won't work, and as a result of this it has opened up the subject and brought about an actual debate, so thank you for taking the time to write that.

I can see your point very well and upon further thoughts I think you may be right. Something I experienced myself in the past was a snowball effect where players would not see many people online and therefore decide to bot rather than play at that time. That then means that as more people do this, there are less people playing actively and so their guildmates follow suit, botting because the rest of their friends are doing the same and so they don't have somebody to play with at that point in time. It also then has the same effect on legitimate players. Their friends who bot (some don’t mind friends doing it, some do) aren't playing because nobody else is and so they play less themselves. I hadn't thought about it in that way until you said that.

I’d like to think though that the Trophy System will help with this. It offers a number of long-term achievements that I hope will give players something to do when there are not any others online and this I imagine would reverse the snowball effect I mentioned above. Of course there will be people who bot 1000 Nessie because its easier, but challenges such as 300m damage on the Tyrannous and sinking 500 Lv20 players amongst others would gain no benefit from a bot really. To then add that these give permanent bonuses that cannot be achieved in another way is a great way to give benefits to those that play properly. What would be your opinions here on making these rewards and challenges more PvP orientated? Do you think it would help the legitimate players take an advantage in this sense? Personally I think it would make players fight more and make the game much more engaging, further reversing that aforementioned snowball effect.

For obvious reasons I haven't been able to check out the new maps first hand yet but I had seen a post in the patchday notes I believe about changing the spawn rate of shinies. I don’t really have much to comment on this though. Shiny botting was not something I did really as my main focus was events or scrolls seeing as for stronger players it is the more efficient way, so I only did shinies at the same time as chest hunting when I needed to.

I would disagree however with one point which was "All legalizing a bot does is make crafting another bot more enticing". Obviously this depends on what the hypothetical price and functions would be of the bot BigPoint released (I know they won't but just for arguements sake). You’d imagine that BigPoint would be able to create a much more comprehensive bot. If it was better than third party bots, legal, and cheaper then I'm sure many of the current users would change to the new one and therefore put the current bot-makers out of business.
I think it's safe to say that BigPoint wouldn’t take this route anyway so it's probably not worth arguing about.

On to your point of "if you say you have found a way to combat the script/bot issue, then stop trying to make it a discussion over the situation and spill the beans". I'm not sure if maybe something I have said has been taken differently to how I intended but I haven't found the answer, hence the reason I created this discussion. I have ideas which I have expressed yes, but not a sure-fire way to combat the issue. That's why I am asking the input of players like yourself and all those that have responded here for their input and ideas, so thank you for contributing.

~Des

Hi there Sea-Sea,

I will say quickly here that with my responses to this I am playing devils advocate to open the topic up to further discussion. Please don't take the impression that I disagree with your ideas.
Morally I agree completely with what you have said. Bans should have been longer than 1 month as I don't think 1 month away from the game is in any way comparable to the items, boosters and in-game currency we have made in our time. I believe the reason it was 1 month is because BigPoint is not able to afford to lose the amount of money they would over an extended time and hope that 1 month will stop players from continuing in this way.

Furthermore with the removal of items, I agree that this would be the sensible thing to do. To allow players to continue holding onto their buffs and benefits with nothing to worry about once they're unbanned is not fair to the other players. My thoughts however are that I don't think BigPoint would be able to remove these items without being able to confirm if they were botted or bought with money. Burning Ice for example could be bought with pearls on an event last year but it is also heavily paid for. I think there would be legal implications of removing items that had actually been paid for despite the ability to buy them with bottable in-game currency. Perhaps somebody with greater legal knowledge could chip in here as I have had no comprehensive legal training myself.

I am not sure if items have been removed from my account or not. Until I am unbanned I will not know so I will have to wait and see there. I expect not though as in the past the punishment has always just been a ban, however often items from bugs and glitchs are removed. I would imagine the reason there is a difference is because with a bug or glitch it is often easy to see how much has been made however with botting its not as simple to see what was gained legitimately or through botting.

Thanks,

~Des

 

Hi Kyloe,

"He is a bot !!! He is actually adding to the problem, not doing anything to solve it!!!"

I will correct this quickly by saying I was a bot, I am no longer adding to the problem, and I have created a forum post that you are actually talking in as a start on finding a way to solve the issue.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to even respond to you after this message if this is all you are going to say. You evidently don't understand how feedback works. Yes, I was part of the problem but you seem to think from your messages that I am the only bot on the entire game and that by getting rid of me then your problems will all be solved.

Please take the time to think your answers through more thoroughly. I hate to be rude but your suggestions would only mean ignoring the rest of the botters that have not come forward about this, preventing this discussion regarding what can feasibly be done, and have no effect on you at all due to the fact we play separate servers. If you truly believe that silencing the one offender that is actually now trying to help players like you then elaborate on this. Explain how silencing me would stop the rest of the botters?

If you are not prepared however to add some constructive feedback, may I respectfully ask that you refrain from commenting.

~Des

 

why is this self confessed bot not been deleted seren,all ppl now know they will not lose accounts,complete shambles.

 

This is similar to the 'proceeds of crime act' where once convicted or in this case caught with the necessary evidence, goods or services that were deemed to have been obtained by fraudulent means or criminal actions could be legally confiscated via a confiscation order. The onus would then be shifted onto the fraudster to demonstrate proof beyond doubt that items seized as a result of that offence were purchased legitimately.

The burden of proof is then shifted from the prosecution over to the defence to prove this fact.

This could be extremely difficult because the fraudsters version is not usually credible or easily believable in law. Usually jurors would not be convinced unless there was indisputable proof to corroborate the convicted fraudsters version of events. In the case of Seafight this could be very difficult for the offender to prove which amounts of ammunition were or were not used and on what dates. It would be an uphill struggle for any player to prove their case beyond doubt, once Bigpoint had actually caught them breaking the rules with the required evidence.

Bigpoint could simply remove what they reasonably estimate to have been obtained over a period and if that player was not happy they would need to prove their case otherwise to the contrary. I would doubt very much with the relatively low amounts of goods or services involved here, that this would even be a consideration or become worthwhile as any recovery action has no real monetary value, unless of course they only wish to further punish the offender(s) and make examples. But this action is a possibility under the circumstances if Bigpoint so desired.

 

Know can you understand why I am quitting this game...bigpoint will not back any honest players...just the cheats....

 

no gm delete all their accounts according to bps own t&cs m8.

 

Hi Wonder,

When they introduce systems such as the League and bring out all sorts of daily requirements that make it difficult for legitimate players to keep up, I can totally understand why you feel that way. I hope for the sake of your friends on this game that you don't leave, but either way I wish you the best.

~Des

 

Indeed, I have repeatedly expressed that sentiment over time m8. However, there's no point in me repeating it again like a record, only Bigpoint can actually fulfil their past promises.

I was merely answering a query raised further up the thread about fairness of being allowed to keep ill -gotten gains and the legal arguments over confiscation of the said goods.

 

I've said plenty of times, morally this is what they should do and what they should have done long ago. The point we are trying to make in response is that if they did this, the game would end up closing as there wouldn't be enough money coming into the game to keep it going. I'm not trying to stop them from doing that, I'm just trying to play devils advocate so you can see the effect this would have on the remaining players. With all due respect this effect is not an opinion, it is mathematics. The opinion would be on whether you think the new players returning would be able to make up for the loss, and if they would be able to in that time.

~Des

 

A few obvious matters need addressing here rather than continually carrying out a Witch hunt into the past.

We need this game to improve and move forward by becoming more attractive and much better value for money. I don't believe anyone disagrees with me on those crucial points. Plus from this point on we definitely need really strict cast iron rock solid rules that if breached lead to a permanent ban without any chance of reprieve, with the company more pro-actively checking and enforcing these points. We need a much improved attitude from customer service that treats and respects people both as humans and customers, acting with efficiency, reliability and courtesy.

Then to move forward we need to make this game by design and also by value as attractive as it possibly can be to encourage new players. Without new players any game will eventually die, that is a sad fact. Once you have managed to increase the numbers and make the game enjoyable and good value, this will have a knock-on effect that will see old players returning to the game hopefully bringing back their wisdom and boosting numbers once again. Only the above can help to avert what HMS Valiant has kindly contributed in the post below. Otherwise Doomsday will inevitably and sadly happen like I predicted ages ago.

No doubt fellow players have some more constructive comments they may wish to add.

 

This shows just how low the standards of this game have gone in it's last gasps of life waiting to be put out of it's misery. We have the player Destruction who before getting caught a 2nd time try to "help" the rest of us honest players by giving advise from the perspective of a past botter who had been caught and banned and how it all works. Remember he was caught! He is trying to encourage all of us to continue playing this game like we are all suckers being more targets and pumping money while this guy is secretly botting and we are keeping this game alive? Talk about Hypocrisy on multiple levels and the gall to come back again after he is caught. T & C not being enforced. Hey Everyone! Just walk away from this. There are far better options out there. Des will get his bot back with everything he accumulated and the rest of the honest players that remain will be played as suckers. Detonation charges are on my ships hull and am scuttling it. Done!

 

Hi Valiant and thanks for commenting.

Yes, I was caught the first time, I foolishly continued and I have been caught again. You seem to have misunderstood though when you say I'm trying to keep you playing this game just to keep my game alive, I'm actually doing this to keep OUR game alive. One thing we all have in common here is that we enjoy this game. Regardless of whether you bot or not, nobody would he here if they didn't enjoy the game. So yes I would like players to stay, we would all like players to stay. It wouldn't effect me on a financial level really and wouldn't benefit me in any way that it wouldn't benefit anybody else. Would you rather everybody kept quiet, swept the issue under the rug and pretended bots didn't exist?

T&Cs have not been enforced, correct. That's not my call though. BigPoint have decided to place the bans for 1 month. Its a shame that somebody coming forward and genuinely trying to help fix the situation has caused you to therefore leave the game but I wish you the best either way.

~Des

 

All,

Another point I would like to add is that although it's only a small gesture, take a moment to consider BigPoints actions the last few weeks since they implemented these bans. Many of you are saying that Bigpoint support the cheats but they have actually planned this well to benefit the players that have played legitimately.

Okay, they didn't ban the bots permanently and we've discussed in depth their reasons for this. But since they placed the bans the legitimate players have been able to get a headstart on levelling up and the new trophy system, as well as 2 events in 2 weeks. I'm not sure if the events are good as I haven't played them but at least acknowledge that Bigpoint are aware of the thoughts and feelings and have at least planned this in such a way that the legitimate players can make use of this time productively.

It's a small gesture yes, but it's a start.

~Des

 

Des you think your helping us out? Seriously? You are just rubbing salt into wounds and you posted on this forum numerous times after the first time you were caught but you were posting AS YOU WERE BOTTING like you are doing us a big favor. I am not quitting just because of you. The map change, total lack of quality control, testing and it is a number of things pointing to a rapidly downward spiral of the game. It is a lack of investment by the owners of the game. They realize it is toward the lifecycle of the game, things are obviously sliding in regards to policy and they are simply milking whatever remaining profit from a rapidly shrinking customer base. It is not worth my time or disposable income to continue playing this walking dead of a game. You will get your bot back no doubt with your illegal gains intact. Time for others and myself to move on. Our guild just has a few members left and they are on the edge themselves and after the map change many of our friends left too. Seafight is a sinking ship.

 

Fireball t and c might say this but if they delete the accounts yours and everyone’s will go with it so that’s up to you

 

leopards and the spots they just cant change them ....

 

the sad fact is that old blind eye has turned about ,and bitten them in the rear ,still its going on in places some would not expect but hey ho players money goes to other game providers ...they just cant grasp the old spring clean means in house not the shed

 

"Okay, they didn't ban the bots permanently and we've discussed in depth their reasons for this."

And this is precisely why me and 1,000's of other honest players are NOT spending a penny on this game (which in contrast to your one off cannon purchase would be REPEATED spending).

Even if I spend whatever allowance I have each month, I would'nt be able to keep up with the bot cheaters...

Why are these systematic bank robbers not banned for life??

Because BP cannot do a simple NPV calculation.

 

Mine will not go noob delete ALL cheats and bots.

 

Only thing that's worse than cheaters who don't give a Edit, are cheaters that believe they're somehow morally entitled to cheat during some homemade parameters. Never liked people who justifies their own bad behavior.