Redesign Bonus Maps

Hello all,

Before I start, I understand that this is a controversial topic; both in terms of the suggestion of removing Bonus Maps as they currently are, and the exploitation of Bonus Maps due to bots. I welcome you all to share you opinions, however lets try keep this conversation on the point of the idea and less about botters (which this thread could easily turn into).

So I posted this in Discord earlier directly where the Team could see it, but thought I would post it here too so that we can get other players opinions on this matter.

I think that the Seafight Team should look at the idea of redesigning bonus maps with new features or add the rewards to existing features, which would result in the removal of bonus maps from the game in the form that we know them.

From my point of view here is how I see scrolls;

• Only the Virgo Scroll is really worth the time and effort for small boats
• Bonus maps take players off of the main water into individual maps, effectively reducing the player count where most servers are already suffering from low player counts
• Biggest feature in the game which is botted by players
• Main area the "League Botters" get their ELP from
• The scrolls are only done for the "main reward" and even then, the majority only for the HP / Queens Legacy / Cannon Damage, they could easily be put into a new feature or existing feature
• For a lot of people, the Scrolls are not entertaining, and very repetitive with no real challenge or exciting features

That is my thought on Bonus Maps, and I am interested to hear you thoughts and if you agree or disagree with me that Bonus Maps should be redesigned.

-Arky

EDIT:
I would like to just clarify my position and idea, as a few posts have shown me I was not clear enough.

I am not suggesting Bonus Maps get removed, I am suggesting that they are redesigned to fix the issues with them.

Bonus Maps can still remain a solo activity for all I am concerned, and they could add extra maps designed for multiple people. I have only said that I would like to see scrolls revamped, a change to the system which has been exactly the same since the 1st of December 2008, and has many negatives as I listed above.

• By changing the system they could design them so that they are harder to be botted
• They could be made more entertaining and engaging for the players
• They could remove the element of chance to get the end rewards
• They could improve the rewards, both the "big" rewards and the normal rewards

Some players have said that they are the best thing for small to mid size players, but that does not make them good, it just means that everything else is even worse. In my opinion Bonus Maps do have a lot of issues, and they should and can be corrected, and made better for all players.

 

Hi Arky,

It's a really interesting concept in my opinion. Scrolls have been in the game since almost the very beginning and I feel like a change or removal would shake up the way that players currently play the game...But perhaps in a positive way! The only benefit I would see of Bonus Maps which would be lost upon moving the rewards would be that it is a safe area for players to farm in peace. In some servers, certain alliances dominate events and therefore the lesser players are driven to scrolls to make pearls. Of course this varies from server to server dependant on the size.

On the contrary however, I feel that removing the Bonus Maps could open up a whole array of benefits to the current game, such as:

• Increasing population on regular maps.
• Evening out the League and Pirate Ranks that are strongly dominated currently by scroll botters.
• Opening up an area for potential new features where players could make, EP, ELP, HP etc.

It may come as a surprise to many of you, but I would really like to see the scrolls revamped into an entirely new feature that does not draw players away from the fight, but instead increases activity in regular maps which would benefit the player base greatly in my opinion.

Thanks,

~Des

 

Destruction talks a lot but he also used bot himself for his own benefit!

For beginners this would be a bad idea because they would be without a safe place to make pearls. Note, in the events the npc's shoot very hard it is impossible for them to do the event npc's, the sun and beemoth maps are usually dominated by certain alliances, ...
Due to the lack of new players in the game, the current ones are gradually disappearing and with this the updates are happening so that the "old" players are paying the increasingly expensive invoice to keep this game in operation and to pay the losses of other Bigpoint games.
I agree in part with your idea but the focus of Bigpoint should be on arranging strategies to bring many new players into the game. With that the game became more interesting, we were not always seeing the same players for years and years and above all THE GAME WAS CHEAPER.

 

Hi Rupino,

I have spoken openly of my previous offences in the forum, such as my account being banned for botting. It is not something I am hiding or denying, it happened, but it does not mean that I cannot have opinions against botting. Anyway, Arky did say in his post that he does not want this post becoming a thread about bots and so I will leave that comment there and say no more on it.

I feel that group maps would be a good way to go here. They can be used to get some good pearls, HP, etc for smaller players by receiving the help of larger players. New players can often feel like a burden to guilds because it often involves going down to low maps and shooting NPC/Monsters. Additionally there is the doubt of these players staying in the game and so people are even more reluctant to take time out of their day to assist. By introducing group maps, you could have 4 strong players and a weak player all doing them, and the weak player will be able to get some great rewards such as HP that he/she couldn't easily achieve otherwise.

~Des

 

I do agree with your points, and I myself have suggested multiple times that they should implement a gear score to get the strength of an account, and then use that to balance areas, NPCs, maps, rewards etc. I feel like that is a very large issue which is a problem in nearly every aspect of this game. I do think this should be something which should be looked into, hastily, however I also feel that the Bonus Maps provide far more negatives to the game than positives to be completely honest, and that this should also be a priority.

For beginners, and as you say, there is a lack of them, I agree that it would be a loss to a 'safe place', however in reality if the player is a beginner, or even a small boat, the pearls they will make from these maps (apart from Virgo Scrolls) is rather minimal anyway for the time required of them.

One thing we do have to remember is that this is just an idea for them to look into replacing Bonus Maps as a new feature, so it is very conceivable that the replacement for this would also benefit new players as well, and I hope it would.

Group maps is a good suggestion, the game already has many many boss elements/effects/attack styles, those could be incorporated into these, which would make them harder to bot, especially if there is some randomisation to the effects in the map. This would also have eliminate some of the boredom of doing scrolls a lot of players feel.

-Arky

 

I was thinking that they could replace the actual bonus maps with minigames such as the ones of the current event. Imagine: Going to cancer to fight one HUGE npc with tons of hp, or a group map. The potential is great.

 

On one hand, it would be a refreshing change to go for a completely new radical overhaul or update from the archaic old aspect of the scroll system to which players have become accustomed, ever since Seafight began. On the other hand, scrolls can offer welcome solitary gameplay where one is on a limited schedule or where other duties can and often do spring up randomly. In the latter respect you can simply play as long as time allows in a scroll, then log off and go do any other tasks without having any feelings that you may be letting down fellow players who may be depending on your participation in a group map.

I don't believe scrolls need replacing, as that would remove the freedom of choice as to which activity any individual would prefer to utilise their own free time. I do however firmly believe that group maps should be an additional item on offer, which would add to that freedom of choice. So perhaps a fresh new revamp and modernisation of the scrolls, including an overhaul of the waves and the rewards offered, along with the introduction of new exciting group maps would be the way to go in providing players with new options, leaving the individual free to choose from the best of both worlds. IMHO

Feelings were expessed recently about the League being scrapped due to bots. That quite rightly brought about objections from many who felt that botters should not be the reason to change gameplay. I don't wish to turn this into a bot thread, but for the reason above botters should not be a consideration when it comes to the possible removal of the scrolls.

EDIT - Vote was subsequently changed to, 'Yes' due to further kind detailed clarification by Arky in the OP. The Bonus maps do indeed need a major overhaul , redesign and revamping. The quote from Arky later in the thread below, more or less setteles the issue. IMO

 

Unfortunately I have to side with no, I feel that removing scrolls will make it even harder for low/mid level players to build their boats, and my reasoning is just plain simple, wars among guild/alliances prevent anyone from actually picking up pearls to build, without a scroll to pick up even a fraction of pearls and allow relief from being chained off the water is a benefit rather than a hindrance.

I understand this is a fighting game, but if players can't find a place where they can build in relative calm waters, then what is the point in playing the game? Yes, I know many abuse the scrolls, as well as the raids, but I still feel both areas are meant for players to work on their boats, not fend off fights while they try to build . . fighting wars or just general fighting should remain only on the regular maps.

Sorry if I strayed off topic, anyhow, I do feel that scrolls could use an update, or rather, introduce new scrolls with a more varied loot than the original ones . . there are after all still 5 unused horoscope signs out there . . just my opinion, some may like and others not so much.

 

Thank you both for your responses, I shall respond to both of these posts together.

It seems to me the inclusion of the word "remove" is being taken as to just remove the whole system. That is not what I am proposing, what the term remove refers to is the removal of normal bonus maps from the game in the form that we know them.

I notice both of you, and I assume the others who have liked your comments, like the fact that scrolls are a solo aspect, and would not like that to change. At no point did I say that the new feature should only involve multiple players, or only be on the open water. I have only said that I would like to see scrolls revamped, a change to the system which has been exactly the same since the 1st of December 2008, and has many negatives as I listed above.

By changing how Bonus Maps work they could produce an area which makes it harder for players to bot, which would obviously be a good thing and would make the League fairer. They could make the area more engaging and entertaining for players, I have read many many times on this forum how the scrolls are only done for the end reward. They could add multiple areas in which some are solo, some are for multiple players. They could remove the element of chance from receiving your end reward. Of course, this also gives the SF Team a perfect opportunity to update the rewards in bonus maps, which are also out of date, making the new system more profitable for everyone.

Please remember that I am in no way saying remove the Bonus Maps and that is it, and I am also not saying what this should be replaced with, or how it should be replaced. I more than welcome you to post you own ideas of a good replacement for the Bonus Map system, which it seems going by the posts, you all agree is outdated and is being abused.

Personally, I would like for the Designers to see that the current way Bonus Maps work is not really beneficial for this game or even good, and should be redesigned. It may be the best thing currently for small to mid size players, but that does not make them good, it just means that everything else is even worse.

In response to Grand-mariner™'s last paragraph. I also was one of the players who said the League should not be removed because of botters. However, I do believe that bots need to be thought about when viewing/creating/redesigning game features. Bots are a part of this game, and every player on this game knows the issues Bigpoint is having banning them all. I believe that as Bonus Maps are by far the most botted feature, and provides them with more benefits than anything else, this should be a factor. Not a factor to the removal of them, but to the redesign of them. I know personally if I knew that redesigning a feature would both improve the feature for players and help decrease the effect of bots in the game, I would want that.

-Arky

 

update or replace them with solo new maps ,I feel group maps dictate when anyone can do there scrolls , as for elp I'm sure all have read my views on that ...delete elp and ep/elp rankings +badges

 

Arky I appreciate the thought you have put into this and there has been good discussion but I am probably one of those rare old high ranked players that came back to the game and started over. I'd side with a number of the points Grand Mariner made and vote no on scrapping them. We honest players have already paid too high of a price due to botters. The bonus maps though monotonous at times provide a great solo escape to just relax in the game and know I will get a certain amount of rewards. I can drink my coffee, have breakfast and multi task offline while still doing my scrolls and actually operating my boat sitting behind my computer. If the bonus maps were to go away it may just push me over the edge and leave the game again.

With the high HP and speed shiny bots or even NPC bots stealing kills it is hard to get much needed resources outside of bonus maps with where by boat is now. Then there are the bots under newbie protection. Not to turn this into a bot thread but resource options are very limited.

The bonus maps are way over due for a major update. Given the accelerating costs of the game in what is required for us to build our boats and stay competitive the maps given by mojo have not changed since I left the game years ago. Would it be possible to add a key element in that BP/Seafight developers make the new maps be very restrictive and nearly impossible for the cheaters to use exploits/bots?

A major overhaul for the bonus maps could be turned into an opportunity if done right and correct many issues.

 

Not too long ago,BP made a small change on scrolls that only lasted a day or two but it made scrolls alot more entertaining.

The change was that the npc's would have to be chased rather than follow you... I loved it and would really really like to
see this idea return.

Word thru the grapevine was that there were mixed reactions about the small change. The biggest complaint was
some felt that it increased the amount of time needed to complete the scroll and the time needed was too excessive.

Having to "hunt" scroll npcs was a welcomed break from playin "follow the leader" or sitting in one spot and shooting wave
after wave till your hp is gone,and running to a corner to rep.

 

Are we just deleting them because you lost gold badge and #1 BP?

 

It's annoying to play same scroll over and over again for HP and all you get is the Hit-increase or bloodlust (when beating a sagittarius scroll). Some kind of group map system for the existing scroll rewards would be great, where you and your pals would fight against one boss and after beating that, everyone gets the same scroll reward. The fight would be less time-consuming than beating a normal scroll, but way harder in terms of difficulty and demands your full focus thus making it harder for botting.

 

Thank you all for your comments.

That is a valid concern regarding group maps, I personally would not mind either way if they were solo or group maps, or maybe update the current maps and add a couple of group maps too! Imo, they for 100% need to make big changes to the Bonus Maps though.

Although this is off topic, EP/ELP Rankings mean nothing these days, they have long lost their legitimacy.

I feel the need to point this out again: I do not want them scrapped, I want them redesigned to correct the issues I have listed.

I do understand your points, but I still stand by my point that just because Bonus Maps in their current form are better than the alternatives, it does not make Bonus Maps good. They can be, and should be redesigned reward wise at the very minimum, and in my view, as this is a game no part of it should feel monotonous, there are things which can be done to improve bonus maps entertainment value while allowing players to play solo and reduce the effect of bots within them.

I agree 100% with your last paragraph, that is all something which I am suggesting with this thread.

I remember this, its where the NPCs went randomly around the map, and I believe you couldnt see them on the mini map. That did make it a lot harder on bots, but I must say that it made it a lot worse for actual players too.. as I stated in the OP I believe most players dislike Bonus Maps already, and if this system was to be permanent it would make them far far worse to do.

I do believe that they have lots of options to make Bonus Maps less bottable though, and I for one think they should do that. I know players who scroll bot 24/7 making millions of pearls, not to mention the end rewards for thousands of days, then getting rewarded by the League because they have made a lot of ELP while doing it. Change the system, decrease the effect of bots, help the game.

I completely agree with having to do the same scroll over and over for a certain reward. I personally had to do 14 Cancer scrolls recently just to get the 75,000 HP! It is ridiculous forcing players to repeat maps which are tedious over and over because the end reward is needed to be competitive in the game. Not to mention that while doing these Bonus Maps, you have to do Daily Quests for Crowns, Chest hunt for Trainers, Events to get the souls to buy Buffs, and not to mention actually play!

A group map would be good to get rewards like that I agree, however I do also realise that a lot of players like to play solo at times and just 'chill', not to mention not be required to find/wait for other players before being able to do one. So, maybe a good compromise of introducing a Group Bonus Map, while updating the Solo Bonus Maps too.

-Arky

 

Arky maybe how the maps are redone and possibly adding more maps with group options where they cannot sink you out or have one player do all the work could help turn the game around. There is opportunity there.

 

This aspect you spoke about is very important. Bigpoint should not make the game a second job for us players. Most of us work and we only have 1 or 2 hours to play on a few days of the week.
The game should provide fun, instead of being a 'job' to keep all those buffs, benefits, advantages and crowns you spoke of and others that also exist.
Looks like Bigpoint wants to kill this game.

 

agreed sadly along with most ranking including battle points .

 

no big deal, cheats allways find a way ...

 

Agreed , remove them and issue all players due, players have a one off choice on there reward for said maps (over a 1 month time period)
, dont inform players of proposed changes in any way, shape or form, freeze counts and issue as per due, revamp rewards to include items such as kings leg , polish muzzle, barri top deck, smokescreen etc, (these items been about long enough now). Extend the map hp if u want, but, make ship / people to work for a worth while reward and we will be all for it!!!